diff --git a/s3fs/core.py b/s3fs/core.py
index d8848db3..6670c017 100644
--- a/s3fs/core.py
+++ b/s3fs/core.py
@@ -764,6 +764,7 @@ async def _lsdir(
                     else:
                         files.append(c)
                 files += dirs
+                files.sort(key=lambda f: f["name"])
             except ClientError as e:
                 raise translate_boto_error(e)
 
@@ -887,38 +888,49 @@ async def _find(
         sdirs = set()
         thisdircache = {}
         for o in out:
-            par = self._parent(o["name"])
-            if par not in sdirs:
-                sdirs.add(par)
-                d = False
-                if len(path) <= len(par):
-                    d = {
-                        "Key": self.split_path(par)[1],
-                        "Size": 0,
-                        "name": par,
-                        "StorageClass": "DIRECTORY",
-                        "type": "directory",
-                        "size": 0,
-                    }
-                    dirs.append(d)
-                thisdircache[par] = []
-                ppar = self._parent(par)
-                if ppar in thisdircache:
-                    if d and d not in thisdircache[ppar]:
-                        thisdircache[ppar].append(d)
-            if par in sdirs:
-                thisdircache[par].append(o)
+            # not self._parent, because that strips "/" from placeholders
+            par = o["name"].rsplit("/", maxsplit=1)[0]
+            o["Key"] = o["name"]
+            name = o["name"]
+            while "/" in par:
+                if par not in sdirs:
+                    sdirs.add(par)
+                    d = False
+                    if len(path) <= len(par):
+                        d = {
+                            "Key": par,
+                            "Size": 0,
+                            "name": par,
+                            "StorageClass": "DIRECTORY",
+                            "type": "directory",
+                            "size": 0,
+                        }
+                        dirs.append(d)
+                    thisdircache[par] = []
+                    ppar = self._parent(par)
+                    if ppar in thisdircache:
+                        if d and d not in thisdircache[ppar]:
+                            thisdircache[ppar].append(d)
+                if par in sdirs and not name.endswith("/"):
+                    # exclude placeholdees, they do not belong in the directory listing
+                    thisdircache[par].append(o)
+                par, name, o = par.rsplit("/", maxsplit=1)[0], par, d
+                if par in thisdircache or par in self.dircache:
+                    break
 
         # Explicitly add directories to their parents in the dircache
         for d in dirs:
             par = self._parent(d["name"])
-            if par in thisdircache:
+            # extra condition here (in any()) to deal with directory-marking files
+            if par in thisdircache and not any(
+                _["name"] == d["name"] for _ in thisdircache[par]
+            ):
                 thisdircache[par].append(d)
 
         if not prefix:
             for k, v in thisdircache.items():
                 if k not in self.dircache and len(k) >= len(path):
-                    self.dircache[k] = v
+                    self.dircache[k] = sorted(v, key=lambda x: x["name"])
         if withdirs:
             out = sorted(out + dirs, key=lambda x: x["name"])
         if detail:
diff --git a/s3fs/tests/test_s3fs.py b/s3fs/tests/test_s3fs.py
index 45609eb6..a59b4c48 100644
--- a/s3fs/tests/test_s3fs.py
+++ b/s3fs/tests/test_s3fs.py
@@ -2365,7 +2365,7 @@ def test_get_file_info_with_selector(s3):
             pass
 
         infos = fs.find(base_dir, maxdepth=None, withdirs=True, detail=True)
-        assert len(infos) == 5  # includes base_dir directory
+        assert len(infos) == 4  # includes base_dir directory
 
         for info in infos.values():
             if info["name"].endswith(file_a):
@@ -2993,3 +2993,56 @@ def test_bucket_info(s3):
     assert "VersionId" in info
     assert info["type"] == "directory"
     assert info["name"] == test_bucket_name
+
+
+def test_find_ls_fail(s3):
+    # beacuse of https://github.com/fsspec/s3fs/pull/989
+    client = get_boto3_client()
+    files = {
+        f"{test_bucket_name}/find/a/a": b"data",
+        f"{test_bucket_name}/find/a/b": b"data",
+        f"{test_bucket_name}/find/a": b"",  # duplicate of dir, without "/"
+        f"{test_bucket_name}/find/b": b"",  # empty file without "/" and no children
+        f"{test_bucket_name}/find/c/c": b"data",  # directory with no placeholder
+        f"{test_bucket_name}/find/d/d": b"data",  # dir will acquire placeholder with "/"
+    }
+    client.put_object(Bucket=test_bucket_name, Key="find/d/", Body=b"")
+    client.put_object(
+        Bucket=test_bucket_name, Key="find/e/", Body=b""
+    )  # placeholder only
+    s3.pipe(files)
+
+    out0 = s3.ls(f"{test_bucket_name}/find", detail=True)
+    s3.find(test_bucket_name, detail=False)
+    out = s3.ls(f"{test_bucket_name}/find", detail=True)
+    assert out == out0
+
+    s3.invalidate_cache()
+    s3.find(f"{test_bucket_name}/find", detail=False)
+    out = s3.ls(f"{test_bucket_name}/find", detail=True)
+    assert out == out0
+
+
+def test_find_missing_ls(s3):
+    # https://github.com/fsspec/s3fs/issues/988#issuecomment-3436727753
+    BUCKET = test_bucket_name
+    BASE_PREFIX = "disappearing-folders/"
+    BASE = f"s3://{BUCKET}/{BASE_PREFIX}"
+
+    s3_with_cache = S3FileSystem(
+        anon=False,
+        use_listings_cache=True,
+        client_kwargs={"endpoint_url": endpoint_uri},
+    )
+    s3_no_cache = S3FileSystem(
+        anon=False,
+        use_listings_cache=False,
+        client_kwargs={"endpoint_url": endpoint_uri},
+    )
+
+    s3_with_cache.pipe({f"{BASE}folder/foo/1.txt": b"", f"{BASE}bar.txt": b""})
+    s3_with_cache.find(BASE)
+    listed_cached = s3_with_cache.ls(BASE, detail=False)
+    listed_no_cache = s3_no_cache.ls(BASE, detail=False)
+
+    assert set(listed_cached) == set(listed_no_cache)